Richard Tice has hit out at the surge in shoplifting across Britain, as the debate over the public's powers to restrain and arrest criminals grows.
The latest figures from 2022 to 2023, there were approximately 342,343 cases recorded by the police. This is up from 275,076 in the previous year.
Joined by Peter Edwards, author at LabourList, the panel became engaged in debate as to whether they would personally intervene and stop a shoplifter.
Speaking on Dewbs & Co, the leader of Reform UK claimed that he "would intervene" if he witnessed somebody shoplifting, adding "I would say you're breaking the law".
Richard Tice called for the Government to build more detention centres for criminals
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Michelle said: “I bet there's a segment of society out there that would quite like to get involved, actually.”
Edwards disagreed, stating: “Join the police and don't do it yourself.”
Tice said: “You can have a citizen's arrest. It's been the law since I think 1967, actually. Do you know what, I think it's sort of a social community thing. You want your community, your high street, your local folk to feel safe.
“You want these scumbags that are doing this stealing, you want them to actually to feel the consequences of their actions. What we've got again, nanny state. If you touch someone, that's an assault. No, if you're breaking the law, if you're stealing, you're thieving, someone might feel your shoulder."And you know, frankly, people have got to understand that communities up and down this country are sick and tired of it. We don't want it and we want it sorted.”Michelle then asked the panel: "But would you sort it? That's the million dollar question that I'm asking.
"I put myself in the way of stuff that I perhaps shouldn't do. But since I've become a mum, I do sit there now and I think because I've got a very strong sense of right and wrong, and I don't like to see people doing what's criminally wrong and all the rest of it.
"But then there is a small part of me now that goes actually, Michelle, you've got a little boy. So yes, you can rescue that pack of Cathedral City in your local Tesco, but you might not get home to your son as a result if you get stabbed.
Michelle continued: "And I think that this is in the people's minds now because people seem to be getting more and more violent. They seem to be, you know, no qualms at all about pulling out a knife and stabbing you.
"And if, on the flip side, you do decide, actually I'm not having this, I'm going to get hold of him, if you dare touch somebody in the wrong way, within two minutes they're running off to whoever it is saying that they've been assaulted by you."
Peter Edwards said 'ordinary people' are not trained to judge risks
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Tice agreed: “Exactly. And so those what I call pathetic assault laws frankly need reassessing, because if you're committing a crime, if it's on video, it's clear as day, then frankly, you're going to suffer the consequences. And here's the point about knife crime again. One strike and you should be taken away for four or five years, locked up.
“Build some more detention centres. The people want knife crime stopped. And that's frankly a feeble excuse for not getting people who carry knives off the streets.
“If you're doing it under the powers of citizens arrest, which you're allowed to do under I think it's Section 3 of the 1967 Criminal Law Act. Frankly, that should be broadened. Why not make it, you know, a positive part of community action. You're going to stop these toe-rags ruining people's societies, causing antisocial behaviour. I think the country would love it, frankly."
Michelle then turned the question to Edwards, asking: “Do you share that enthusiasm?”
Edwards stated: “No. And I think you've really answered why, which is the public, which are ordinary like us, are not always trained to judge risk. We're certainly not trained in how to kind of wrestle someone to the ground.
"And as you said, anyone who's got someone we love, which is, you know, all of us, they think 'would we want to put ourselves in harm's way'. So I would like to think I'd do something about it. But it's entirely reasonable that people do have that moment of hesitation saying, you know, 'I'm a single parent, what if I get a knife somewhere nasty?'"